Teslas With Rebuilt Title - Supercharging Removal

[Sadus671]

Hello Everyone,

I've not heard of any instances of Model 3s losing the ability to Supercharge.

Almost all reported cases I've heard of are older Model Ss that had Free Supercharging.

Just curious if anyone has heard of any cases?

Certainly anyone who has one could lose it at any time, but there seemed to be a priority list.

As I feel like Tesla wants people to spend money supercharging and they just wanted to remove vehicles who had FREE supercharging. It had nothing to do with safety.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cucubits]

they just wanted to remove vehicles who had FREE supercharging. It had nothing to do with safety.

I don't think this is the case. If someone fixes up a wrecked Tesla in a basement with duct tape and nails, there's no way for Tesla to ensure it won't explode the first time it would supercharge. Unless they can assess the damage (I don't know if they are willing to do this on salvage cars), it is very much in the interest of safety to disable supercharging.

 

[Sadus671]

I would say I don't think it is the case that Tesla would have no way to tell.

Obviously the vehicle has a high level of connectivity and records are kept of vehicles of access the supercharger network.

As well as there is a safety protocols that any EV goes through before even enabling charging, as well as safety systems in case of an issue during charging (which were checked during the handshake)

So I just don't buy the safety argument. I've also never heard of an actual case in which a rebuilt Tesla damaged itself or a Supercharger as a result of it being a rebuilt vehicle.

Also, Tesla's have had no problem blowing up/catching of file on clean vehicles, so that isn't an apparent guarantee either.

 

[jmaddr]

I buy the safety reasons, but I buy even more the liability reasons. You just can't predict everything when it comes to a salvaged vehicle and the quality of the repairs. Could you imagine a perfectly looking good Tesla at a supercharger in flames? They don't want the bad press, they don't want the liability; this certainly isn't hard to believe. And I don't think they make much money on the supercharger for them to look at it as a profit center; it's a sales effort. I even think they may be losing money. Heck, the costs of the L3 competitors coming online are almost double!

I have heard that they may leave supercharging enabled if you pay for their inspection process but I don't know anyone personally to have gone through that. There are reputable Tesla salvage dealers out there I'm sure you could ping to get their real world experience.

 

[Runt8]

I buy the safety reasons, but I buy even more the liability reasons. You just can't predict everything when it comes to a salvaged vehicle and the quality of the repairs. Could you imagine a perfectly looking good Tesla at a supercharger in flames? They don't want the bad press, they don't want the liability; this certainly isn't hard to believe. And I don't think they make much money on the supercharger for them to look at it as a profit center; it's a sales effort. I even think they may be losing money. Heck, the costs of the L3 competitors coming online are almost double!

I have heard that they may leave supercharging enabled if you pay for their inspection process but I don't know anyone personally to have gone through that. There are reputable Tesla salvage dealers out there I'm sure you could ping to get their real world experience.

Hanlon's razor for the new age: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by legalistic weaseling.

 

[jjrandorin]

I would say I don't think it is the case that Tesla would have no way to tell.

Obviously the vehicle has a high level of connectivity and records are kept of vehicles of access the supercharger network.

As well as there is a safety protocols that any EV goes through before even enabling charging, as well as safety systems in case of an issue during charging (which were checked during the handshake)

So I just don't buy the safety argument. I've also never heard of an actual case in which a rebuilt Tesla damaged itself or a Supercharger as a result of it being a rebuilt vehicle.

Also, Tesla's have had no problem blowing up/catching of file on clean vehicles, so that isn't an apparent guarantee either.

This just sounds like you are prepping the argument you would make to tesla if you bought a salvage vehicle and either supercharging was disabled, or they did it after. If you buy a salvage tesla, the expectation should be that you will not be able to supercharge it. Whether they "have done it yet to model 3s" or not, that should be the expectation.

No amount of " I dont buy argument X, Y or Z" is going to mater in the end, so other than a thought experience (or discussion because people are bored while working from home), there is precedent that Tesla disabled supercharging on salvage S and X vehicles and the expectation should be they would continue the trend, especially if one was looking to buy one of those for some reason.

 

[Knightshade]

Salvage titles get fast charging disabled, per Teslas unsupported vehicle policy.

Not just supercharging- all DC fast charging.


YMMV on when/if it happens to you, but you have zero argument to make if/when it does at this point.


There's a handful of older owners who paid to have their cars re-certified who might have an argument- but anybody going forward? Nope.

 

[Sadus671]

Just to clarify,

My primary intention in inquiring on instances of Model 3s being blacklisted, in the same way many of the salvaged/rebuilt S and X vehicles have been reported.

Since, both S and X models often came or come with Unlimited Supercharging, I was suspicious that the emphasis to removing salvaged/rebuilt vehicles of this type. Since Model 3s never came with that option and always had/do have to pay for use that Tesla doesn't want to cut off that potential revenue. Also, to make these unlimited supercharging vehicles less desirable to rebuild.

Again, it was just a suspicion on why I had never yet heard of an instance of a rebuilt Model 3 being blacklisted for Supercharging.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Tesla currently makes no profit off Superchargers. Enabling salvage cars to charge there will not add to profitability.

 

[jjrandorin]

Just to clarify,

My primary intention in inquiring on instances of Model 3s being blacklisted, in the same way many of the salvaged/rebuilt S and X vehicles have been reported.

Since, both S and X models often came or come with Unlimited Supercharging, I was suspicious that the emphasis to removing salvaged/rebuilt vehicles of this type. Since Model 3s never came with that option and always had/do have to pay for use that Tesla doesn't want to cut off that potential revenue. Also, to make these unlimited supercharging vehicles less desirable to rebuild.

Again, it was just a suspicion on why I had never yet heard of an instance of a rebuilt Model 3 being blacklisted for Supercharging.

I think there are versions of model 3s that came with free unlimited supercharging. I believe when the Model 3P was first released, those cars had free unlimited supercharging.. maybe till the end of Quarter 3 of 2018.

In any case, I understand the argument you are making above, but I just dont agree with the premise that they have not blacklisted model salvage model 3s because of the reason you state. There just are not a lot of people with salvage model 3s who post here is all. I remember seeing one post from someone who was rebuilding one and asking about charging because he was getting an error, and I seem to remember him saying that he was not able to fast charge.

In any case, I cant prove anything one way or another, and am not quite sure where you are going with this... meaning is it just a discussion, or are you considering (or have purchased) a model 3 that has a salvage title and trying to find out what you might be up for.

I think tesla will disable fast charging on any tesla they become aware of that has a salvage title... its just... when will they become aware of it is the question.

 

[Knightshade]

I think there are versions of model 3s that came with free unlimited supercharging. I believe when the Model 3P was first released, those cars had free unlimited supercharging.. maybe till the end of Quarter 3 of 2018.

Yup.

Such buyers did later get the option to give up free supercharging for a $5000 refund check (and many did, but not everyone)

In any case, I understand the argument you are making above, but I just dont agree with the premise that they have not blacklisted model salvage model 3s because of the reason you state. There just are not a lot of people with salvage model 3s who post here is all. I remember seeing one post from someone who was rebuilding one and asking about charging because he was getting an error, and I seem to remember him saying that he was not able to fast charge.

Yup.

It's a VERY VERY small pool of folks... in his video complaining about this policy RichRebuilds even remarked on that very fact.

I think tesla will disable fast charging on any tesla they become aware of that has a salvage title... its just... when will they become aware of it is the question.

Agreed.... Anyone considering going salvage should assume they will not have DC fast charging, and if it DOES work for a while...super...but don't expect to keep it even if it does.

(FWIW- there's at least one hacker out there who will, for money, enable DC fast charging on cars it's been disabled on.... Tesla recently added terms that they can actually sue you for doing this on your vehicle so I wouldn't advise it- though if you only stuck to 3rd party DC charging you'd probably avoid detection)

 

[user212_nr]

As I feel like Tesla wants people to spend money supercharging and they just wanted to remove vehicles who had FREE supercharging. It had nothing to do with safety.

I was joking on another thread about the "free supercharging" that these cars are going to be rebuilt for 40 years.

However, most cars end their life by being old and not by being salvaged, so the percent savings on those cars is minimal.

The problem is that those supercharger stations not only cost millions of dollars, but they are critical infrastructure. So even a small chance of a fire or transformer explosion is a big deal.

Also, if you are thinking of buying a salvaged Tesla - don't do it.

 

[Electric700]

...

So I just don't buy the safety argument. I've also never heard of an actual case in which a rebuilt Tesla damaged itself or a Supercharger as a result of it being a rebuilt vehicle.

Also, Tesla's have had no problem blowing up/catching of file on clean vehicles, so that isn't an apparent guarantee either.

The incidence of EV fires (e.g. due to an accident or another reason) is still statistically much less than ICE (gas-powered) cars. Tesla has completed recent software updates to make theirs even safer. So, I think you're better off in a Tesla.

 

[Candleflame]

wasnt there some russian hacker which enabled free supercharging for salavage teslas? seem to recall one of rich rebuilds cars had that

 

[Candleflame]

I was joking on another thread about the "free supercharging" that these cars are going to be rebuilt for 40 years.

However, most cars end their life by being old and not by being salvaged, so the percent savings on those cars is minimal.

The problem is that those supercharger stations not only cost millions of dollars, but they are critical infrastructure. So even a small chance of a fire or transformer explosion is a big deal.

Also, if you are thinking of buying a salvaged Tesla - don't do it.

once a car is 30 years old they should get all upgrades enabled and free supercharging for life. The amount of cars which last that long is minimal and the owner should be rewarded for dedicating himself that much to a car + having a driving tesla museum.

I think people dont understand how much time and heart it needs to keep cars like that in good look and shape. Yes, EVs will last longer than ICEs but 30 years is still an achievement.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I feel it’s environmentally irresponsible to blanket all rebuilt Tesla’s as “rogue” vehicles and cripple them. It would be in their better interest to take each case individually and assess the suitability of the rebuild under goodwill as a safety measure.

-If the vehicle passes the grade, offer conditional support (parts and servicing at the owner’s expense, pay as you go supercharging, paid premium connectivity, etc)

-If it does not, give an honest report and lay out a process to bring the vehicle into compliance for conditional support for a future inspection.

 

[Knightshade]

wasnt there some russian hacker which enabled free supercharging for salavage teslas? seem to recall one of rich rebuilds cars had that

I think there's several who can do it even in the US

Phil Sadow for example (AKA Ingineerix)

But I believe locking Tesla out from just disabling it again also locks Tesla out from other things that can cause problems. See this thread-
Re-enable supercharging service request on salvage title.

And in the recent term changes on their salvage vehicle support policy Tesla added they can actually sue you for damages if you enable unauthorized access to their supercharging network.

I feel it’s environmentally irresponsible to blanket all rebuilt Tesla’s as “rogue” vehicles and cripple them. It would be in their better interest to take each case individually and assess the suitability of the rebuild under goodwill as a safety measure.

-If the vehicle passes the grade, offer conditional support (parts and servicing at the owner’s expense, pay as you go supercharging, paid premium connectivity, etc)

-If it does not, give an honest report and lay out a process to bring the vehicle into compliance for conditional support for a future inspection.

AFAIK other than DC fast charging they do offer exactly that.

You can pay for an inspection and if it passes they will do future work on the vehicle if you want, and will sell you VIN-restricted parts for it too.

 

[Rocky_H]

Since, both S and X models often came or come with Unlimited Supercharging, I was suspicious that the emphasis to removing salvaged/rebuilt vehicles of this type. Since Model 3s never came with that option and always had/do have to pay for use that Tesla doesn't want to cut off that potential revenue. Also, to make these unlimited supercharging vehicles less desirable to rebuild.

That argument is pretty much nonsense, because of this:

Not just supercharging- all DC fast charging.

So this isn't about something with their network or P&L. It's that the vehicle has experienced significant damage, and they don't trust subjecting it to the very high power of DC fast charging safely.

I feel it’s environmentally irresponsible to blanket all rebuilt Tesla’s as “rogue” vehicles and cripple them. It would be in their better interest to take each case individually and assess the suitability of the rebuild under goodwill as a safety measure.

-If the vehicle passes the grade, offer conditional support (parts and servicing at the owner’s expense, pay as you go supercharging, paid premium connectivity, etc)

-If it does not, give an honest report and lay out a process to bring the vehicle into compliance for conditional support for a future inspection.

? You seem to be talking about this as if you think it's a cool hypothetical idea that they should start doing. But this basically is what they do, as @Knightshade mentioned. They will take each case individually if someone wants to get that inspection, and they will check each part of the system to make sure there is no damage to those components and to ensure that they can operate safely, and then they will re-enable Supercharging and support.

The only difference seems to be that you think they should have the variable set to ON by default, even for salvage titles until someone gets an inspection, which might reveal something bad, which would then make them turn it to OFF. Does that make sense?

If bringing the vehicle to Tesla for a safety inspection could only have the outcome of having Supercharging disabled and taken away, why would anyone ever do it?! People would always just keep them hidden and never inspected for safety, which is dangerous. It's much better to have these zombie cars not Supercharging enabled until they can check each one to ensure that it is safe to turn it back on again.

 

[MP3Mike]

They will take each case individually if someone wants to get that inspection, and they will check each part of the system to make sure there is no damage to those components and to ensure that they can operate safely, and then they will re-enable Supercharging and support.

No, that isn't how it works. The HV inspection only gets your car certified for Tesla to work on the HV system. (For example replacing a failed charger or charge port.) It does not get Supercharging or DC fast charging re-enabled. (Their policy specifically says that Supercharging is permanently disabled.)

 

[Knightshade]

No, that isn't how it works. The HV inspection only gets your car certified for Tesla to work on the HV system. (For example replacing a failed charger or charge port.) It does not get Supercharging or DC fast charging re-enabled. (Their policy specifically says that Supercharging is permanently disabled.)

Yup- which is why I mentioned in my earlier post "other than DC fast charging they do offer exactly that."